Discussing Effective Lawmaking with Representative Gus Bilirakis

Alan Wiseman: (00:10)

Hey, hello! My name is Alan Wiseman.

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (00:12): 

How are you?

Alan Wiseman (00:13):

I’m doing great. I’m the Associate Provost of Strategic Projects and Professor of Political Science at Vanderbilt University, and along with Craig Volden, at the Frank Batten School of Leadership and Public Policy, I co-direct the Center for Effective Lawmaking. And the both of us are absolutely thrilled to welcome Congressman Gus Bilirakis, who’s represented Florida in the U.S. House of Representatives since 2007. As many of you know, the Congressman represents Florida’s 12th Congressional district, which geographically is located on the Gulf Coast, and includes Citrus, Hernando, and portions of Pasco Counties. Representative Bilirakis received his bachelor’s degree in political science – something Craig and I are very excited about – at the University of Florida, and he also received his JD at Stetson University. Prior to serving in the U.S. House, the Congressman practiced law, specializing in probate and estate planning, and he was also elected to the Florida State House in 1998, where he served for 8 years prior to being elected to the U.S. House. Now, during his time in Congress, the Congressman has distinguished himself from his peers in many notable ways in regards to his engagement with the legislative process. And according to our data at the Center for Effective Lawmaking, his high level of lawmaking effectiveness has extended across his career. In fact, he holds one of the longest active streaks of being in our prestigious “exceeds expectations” in lawmaking effectiveness category. In other words, he’s notably more successful at advancing his sponsored bills through the legislative process, compared to other legislators and other representatives who are in similar positions to himself regarding their majority party standing, with their seniority, and whether they hold committee or subcommittee chairs. It’s also the case that he’s regularly recognized as the most effective lawmaker in Florida’s Congressional delegation, as well as being recognized quite often as being among the top 10 most effective lawmakers among House Republicans. So, Congressman Bilirakis, we are so excited to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us for a Center for Effective Lawmaking interview.

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (02:17):

My pleasure, my pleasure. Thanks for doing what you do. It really makes a difference, and it’s good for our constituents to see how effective we are, because, you know, we’re not a lot of times, the people that get the headlines. So, we focus on passing good responsible legislation on both sides of the aisle.

Alan Wiseman (02:46): 

Right. Well, that’s great to hear, and that’s very much the mission of what we’re trying to accomplish here. To that end, you know, as we just discussed a few minutes ago, we’re going to be asking you a series of fairly general questions that allows you to think about your background, and how does it influence your perspective on the lawmaking process. And we’d really love to hear from you with any specific examples across your career that might come to mind to help fill out some of the details behind some of the questions we’re asking. So to that end, what I’d actually like to do is take a step back well before you were elected to Congress to talk a bit about your background and the ways in which it really shapes your perspectives as a lawmaker, now that you’re in Washington, DC. So, as some viewers might not be aware, quite early in your life, you already really had significant political interactions in a variety of contexts with different leaders. Your father actually served in the U.S. House from the early 1980s until the time that you filled the seat. But even before that it was also the case that you served as an intern to President Ronald Reagan. And Craig and I, and I’m sure our viewers would be interested to hear really, how those early experiences shaped your perspective on public service and your outlook as a legislative policymaker.

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (04:00):

I’ve always wanted to serve in some capacity. Even in high school, I remember we did a recording for my high school graduation. I said I was going to be in some capacity, serving in Washington, DC, possibly as a legislator. I interned for Bill McCollum while I was in high school. He was a good legislator, strong legislator for many years from Florida, and I’ve always again been fascinated with politics and getting things done and having the ability or being placed in a position to serve others. My father was not a politician, but he was drafted to run for Congress. I was probably number one on the committee, for he always tells me that that I kind of pushed him over to public service, even though you know, we used to go to all the civic associations, and he’d volunteer on a regular basis. We were, you know, members of quite a few civic organizations, but also veterans organizations because he served in Korea overseas. Even on my mom’s side, my grandmother was not an elected official. They were immigrants from Greece. Actually, all 4 of my grandparents immigrated to the United States. But she served on a committee and she was President for over 20 years — the Philoptochos Society, which means “helping the poor” – and she was very instrumental in helping various families that needed help during the wars, but also after that. And she could speak English, so we grew up in an immigrant community, and she would help them, you know, get assistance from different programs, and they appreciated that very much. So I witnessed that over the years, and I think that had a lot to do with it. But I was, I’ll be honest with you, I was watching the conventions, the political conventions. My dad said “you should be watching cartoons,” I was in second grade. So I always wanted to serve in DC. It was a dream of mine. And then Ronald Reagan came along, and I volunteered on his campaign, and I got invited to the inauguration with my parents, and it was a grassroots effort on my part again, just as a volunteer. But I was always fascinated and looked up to President Reagan as well.

Craig Volden (07:00): 

Yeah, I mean getting that background is so helpful to us. And let me second Alan’s thanks for joining us today. You know, we’re fascinated by what problems effective lawmakers decide to focus their attentions on. And so maybe you could step us through, kind of, how did you see the problems you were addressing when you were first elected to the Florida House of Representatives, and then how did your outlook change as you moved from the State House to Congress?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (07:28):

Well, I kind of adapted in the legislature because you’re assigned a particular committee, maybe based on your – I practiced law for many years, as you said, estate planning and residential real estate in a blue-collar town. So, I had a little knowledge in property, real property, and estate planning so they put me on a real property and probate committee, initially. And then, not really having much – I wasn’t a litigator, but they placed me on a Public Safety Committee, substantive committee, and then subsequently, I chaired the Public Safety Appropriations Committee the next term. So, you know, I dealt with it. I had a law partner by the name of Elizabeth Hittos, who we practiced law, and she did criminal defense, she was a prosecutor prior to that. So that helped a lot. I asked her a lot of questions. So I was dealt that hand, and I excelled in doing that. And then also when I went to Congress, I always wanted to serve on a Healthcare Committee, partially because my dad was chair of the – I’ll be honest with you, I mean, he was a great role model for me, and he still is. But you know healthcare is something very important to my constituents, access to quality, health care, affordable health care,so I did it. I dabbled a little bit in the legislature. I supported the community health centers, sponsored legislation, “access” legislation. As a matter of fact, it was in my office now, I saw 4 or 5 appointments in my office before this. So that was very important to me.

So I strived to be on the Energy and Commerce Committee because of the vast jurisdiction,and healthcare in particular. But veterans, I grew up in the VFWS, the American Legions. So I knew the sacrifices that our veterans have made on behalf of us, and my dad had a track record of helping veterans,so the first thing I did was I asked for the Veterans Committee in Congress. But then, you know, they wanted to put me on Financial Services. The speaker said, “Look, you can be on Financial Services”, which is a great committee for freshmen. But they said you wouldn’t be able to serve on Veterans, and I said, “No, no, no, I have to be on Veterans. I represent close to 100,000 veterans, and I want to make that my issue, to help out our true American heroes.” So I ended up serving on the Homeland Security Committee and then Foreign Affairs. I think you guys know that we are very proud of our heritage, the ethnic background. And I chaired, followed my dad because he founded the Hellenic Caucus, and then I founded the Hellenic Israel Alliance, because we have a lot of experience in that area, the Eastern Mediterranean. And it’s beneficial to the United States above everything else,so I focused on those issues, international issues early in my career, as you know. And then, once I got on the Energy and Commerce Committee, I turned to health care and retained my position on the Veterans Committee for many years, until I became chairman – it is currently called the Commerce Manufacturing and Trade Subcommittee, and the chair of the full committee said, “you can’t be on a second committee”. But I am the advisor to the Speaker on Veterans Affairs, so I’m never going to give that up.

Craig Volden (11:45): 

Yeah. Thanks.

Alan Wiseman (11:46): 

That’s a really fascinating discussion or coverage of your trajectory across committees. And I actually want to return to that in a few minutes. But before we do, I actually still want to take a step back to some of your days in the Florida State House, because at the Center for Effective Lawmaking, we’ve actually recently started to trace the lawmaking effectiveness and lawmaking activities of state legislators in a manner that’s analogous to the ways in which we study members of Congress. And, as we noticed, exploring your experiences in the Florida State House, you display a really interesting trajectory in the sense that you clearly became a notably more effective or successful legislator and lawmaker across your sessions in the Florida State House. If we think just that from your earliest days, until when you concluded, you started to simply see notably more bills ultimately make their way through the legislative process from introduction to becoming law, during your earlier to later terms. And we were just curious to know especially thinking about the ways in which you spend time in the State House before coming to Congress. You know, how would you describe the learning curve that you experienced in the Florida State House? And to what degree do you think that, translated naturally to how you hit the ground running once you came to Congress?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (13:01):

The Florida House is a really sophisticated House. I think you know that, and in the Senate as well, the Florida Senate. So that was very helpful to me. I got some really good experience. Of course, we have term limits in Florida, so I could only serve the 8 years, the 4 years and so that was very beneficial as well. But you know, watching my father all these years, he never lectured me, but just watching him – and hopefully my kids, you know, get a lot out of watching me, because it’s a great sacrifice for them. My brother and I were older -we were at the University when my dad first ran for Congress. So you know, they grew up in my, you know, I’m very attached to my kids. But you know, doing it right, being an effective legislator takes a lot of work and overtime. And I watched my father with a constituent service, that’s very important, too. I mean, just as important as anything else. Going to places, listening. I think I’m a pretty good listener. I had some disabilities growing up, hearing and vision, visual disabilities, and I had to overcome them. And initially, in the Legislature, I had a hard time in the committee rooms because I had a difficult time hearing. But once the technology improved in the Florida Legislature, you know, I got more comfortable, and it takes a lot of confidence, too, and you got to build that confidence, and I always knew that my dad never put any pressure on me.

But I wanted to – I don’t know if it’s a great thing – but the most important thing is to retain your name, your reputation. And the name is so very important. You can make all the money in the world, but if you stain your reputation, it’s not a good thing. So, Dad never put any pressure on me. My constituents didn’t put any pressure on me. The Greek community did not. But I knew it within. I didn’t want to embarrass my father. So, and I think that had a lot to do with it. So, I took my job very seriously. I will tell you this: my law practice suffered for it, because it’s this part-time legislature in Florida, but I almost did it full time because I wanted to do the best I possibly could do to make my dad proud, but also my mom and my constituents, and the kids, too. I wanted them to look up to me. Physically, they’re taller than I am, but figuratively, I wanted to make sure that they could be proud of their father, and I think that had a lot to do with it. So yeah, the transition between the Florida House and the U.S. Congress was somewhat easy for me. I know you didn’t ask this question, but the fact was that I had a very loyal staff. I brought my two law partners with me. They sacrificed a lot to come to DC, but I knew I had loyalty. I knew they were very smart. And ultimately, my legislative assistant, Summer Blevins, has been with me for many, many years as well in the district. So, loyalty, brains, but also, I retained some of my dad’s staff as well, initially. So, they stayed on. A lot of them stayed on, both in the district, but also in DC. And then they retired to a certain extent, some of them did. But they helped me get started, and they knew that. You know I care for my staff, and I treat them as equals. So, we do things together. And I like to bounce ideas off of people. That’s the way I am. And then I make the ultimate decision.

Craig Volden (17:35):

Yeah, no thanks for bringing together all of those different elements. You know, I’m particularly interested in the different jobs that you do as a lawmaker. You were mentioning the constituent services, we’ve mentioned the lawmaking. Can you tell us a little bit about kind of how those come together? So, you hear something from your constituents, does that turn into legislation down the road? Or maybe an example or two?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (18:00):

Yeah. Well, let me just say, in the Florida Legislature, probably my proudest moment was actually sponsoring legislation to make our junior college in Pinellas County, a state college. Well, we offer baccalaureate degrees, and we took the junior out of the it. It’s now St. Petersburg College, and we offer the 4-year degrees in areas of need. And that was something that came from the constituents and working with the college as well. So, I thought that was quite an accomplishment, because I did serve on education committees in the legislature. Summer Blevins, who’s sitting right next to me, she was instrumental as well. And I worked with the superintendent, and the president of the college. So then, you know, due to our legislation, we have state colleges now all over Florida that offer these degrees in areas of need, specifically nursing and teaching. And then we had management too, technology management. And now it’s more than that. And my prior chief of staff got his four-year degree. And now he’s doing very well in the private sector. I’ll name him, David Peluso. He started with me as a scheduler, where he worked on the campaign in his early twenties, started as a scheduler, and then became my chief of staff, and now is doing very well in the private sector. But he got his degree from St. Petersburg College, and I understand it’s the top teaching college in the state now. So that was a really good thing.

And then, you know, another bill that comes to mind is where spouse can – and you don’t have to be a hundred percent, if there’s space available – a veteran can go on the military plane free of charge. It used to be just 100% disabled. But now we have our veterans and their spouses, if there’s space available. That’s what it’s called space available. That came from my constituents. I know it’s a small bill, but it means a lot to some of these veterans that are on limited incomes. That came from our constituents. So, there’s a lot of legislation that came for our physical therapists. That was a big deal. When we lifted the cap on physical therapy. With regard to Medicare patients, I worked with the Senator from Tennessee on that, Marsha Blackburn, who was a member of the House at that time. That came from our constituents. So, listening to our constituents, we truly get the best ideas coming from the people. There’s no question. 

Craig Volden (21:16): 

Thanks. That’s terrific.

Alan Wiseman (21:17): 

No, those are really great illustrations of your activities as a legislator and lawmaker. I want to think a little bit about your earliest days in the U.S. House. So, as I noted a little bit earlier. You know you’ve had one of the longest streaks in the House compared to all the members who we study, in the sense you’ve been in our “exceeds expectations” category quite consistently. And even more so if you really dive into the weeds a little bit, we’re able to demonstrate that, according to our data, you were exceeding expectations as a lawmaker, even in your freshman term. So, thinking back to when you were first elected, the 110th House, 2007 to 2009, just simply speaking, you were notably more effective as a lawmaker than any other freshman in the minority party, than the Republican Party, member of the U.S. House, or a similar one. And you know you’ve commented a bit on the importance of staff, and holding on to your several prominent members of your father’s staff. But the same point, it’s obvious, as you just said, quite a bit of this is a full-time, you know, highly engaged job. And Craig and I, and I’m sure our viewers would like to hear, you know, how did you really hit the ground running, just even in your freshman term? You know, what did you? I guess another way of thinking about this is, if you were to think about newly elected members of the House in both parties, what advice would you give to freshmen to help them advance their ideas and become successful lawmakers from day one?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (22:46):

Well, to hire a good, experienced staff,particularly a chief of staff, but probably even more importantly, to hire good district staff, mostly experienced staff, because they do the casework. And it’s so very important. We’re famous for – my dad did a great job with constituent service. And a lot of it has to do with me attending events. But the casework is so very important. So, you have to have qualified people that – and the fact that I did retain, particularly here in the district, I retained my father’s staff, not all of them, but I would say quite a few of them, and there was really no break in the service that’s provided. Now you know, I will tell you this, and I know we’re talking about earlier in my career, but my district has changed substantially, due to redistricting. So most of our constituents now are new constituents, and I’ve been, you know, I’ve been representing them for only two, two and a half years now. They never really knew – my dad never represented them. So we worked really hard, and again you got to do the job right, and not take shortcuts. And then, you know, I’m not on cable TV, very rarely. And I know my staff gets upset about that. But you know I only have so much time, and I think we just got to do work at it and do what’s important for your constituents. If I have something to say that I believe in strongly, then I will go on cable TV. I do the local TV because most of that is casework, you know, reporting on casework. So, I don’t turn down local stations at all. But you there’s no substitute for constituents seeing you in person. So that’s very important.

But you know, when we first started, I mentioned that I turned down Financial Services because I wanted to be on Veterans, and then I got Homeland Security and Foreign Affairs. Well, you work with what you’re dealt with. Yeah, those aren’t considered– I consider Veterans an A committee, but they’re not considered A committees, nor is Homeland Security. But constituents care about those issues, and Foreign Affairs as well. So, you know you’ve got to be humble, too, and not ask for – I know there are some members that complain about their committee assignments. Well, I had to wait for several years to get on Energy and Commerce, but I didn’t get upset. I didn’t start voting against the leadership to prove a point or anything like that. I just took what I had and made the best of it, and I think it was probably better for me now in retrospect that I didn’t get Energy and Commerce right away because I worked, I focused on the veterans issues and homeland security issues. So, I think that’s what made me effective early on. 

Craig Volden (26:23):

Yeah, when we think about that transition, and certainly, you were adjusting the types of bills you were putting forward to match those committee assignments, and so on. From an outside perspective, I could imagine folks looking at Congress and saying, maybe they law-make different around healthcare than they do around defense. Did you find in those different areas lawmaking is all just the same or are there–?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (26:52):

Lawmaking is about relationships. But getting good ideas from your constituents. And also, it’s about forming relationships and building trust. And I have a lot of – I believe that there’s quite a few lawmakers on the other side on the Democrat side that respect me, because I don’t embarrass them. They know I have a heart for healthcare, and I want to help as many people as possible. And even on the other issues – and I have a very conservative record – but my reputation is working with the other side. So even when the Democrats control the House, I still was successful in getting legislation through, people would walk up to me and tell me, “Look, will you be the prime co-sponsor, the Republican sponsor of this particular bill? Because we know you’re going to work it on your side”. That’s another thing. You’ve got to be serious about getting legislation through. And you know I was. And whatever political capital I had, I pushed it towards the subject matter that I was working on at that time. And I would go up to the opposing party – and I wasn’t embarrassed – the Speaker of the House, at that time it was Speaker Pelosi, and ask her to help me out with these particular bills. You know, my dad had a really good reputation in Congress, so I think there were people that gave me a chance initially. See, is “he going to be like his Dad, or is he going to be a showboat?” And I turned out to be like my Dad because I don’t know any other way.

Alan Wiseman (28:46):

No, I mean your comments about the importance of relationships and driving towards bipartisan coalition building really resonates very nicely with us at the Center. In fact, some of our published research actually highlights the benefits of bipartisan coalition building for lawmaking effectiveness in the sense that we’ve demonstrated that members of the House and Senate, but the House in this case were able to cultivate bipartisan co-sponsors or co-sponsorship networks on their bills, controlling, for the things are notably more successful at seeing their bills advance to the legislative process.

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (29:20):

That’s the best way to do things. And you know, being on that committee, Energy and Commerce, it’s more bipartisan than most committees, and I want to keep it that way.

Alan Wiseman (29:33):

Well, I mean consistent with what you’re saying, I mean an objective source – our own work – has demonstrated you clearly work hard to attract bipartisan co-sponsors to your bills. You know, most recently we’re thinking about your recent healthcare bill on Parkinson’s that had 172 co-sponsors, two-thirds of whom were Democrats, and that was when your party actually held the majority in the House. So from our perspective, it’s striking us that even though you’re in the majority, you’re still actively cultivating bipartisan co-sponsor networks. And related to that, you know, I think we’d be interested as well as other viewers, other legislators might be interested in, really, what do you see as some of the advantages or disadvantages of bipartisanship in Congress, especially in contemporary times? And how do you really go about building lawmaking coalitions, either within your own party or across party lines, especially when you’re in the minority?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (30:27):

Yeah, again, building relationships with other members is very, very important. You know, where we should be Americans – and we are Americans first, and then party. I don’t like to embarrass people. I guess I’m a little sensitive in that, I don’t like to offend people. But I will stand up for my particular issue, and if I say something that offends somebody, I’ll go up to them. Or if I was wrong on a particular issue, I would go up to them and say, “Look, I’m sorry, you know I didn’t mean that”, or you know, “I hope you didn’t take it the wrong way”. I mean, you know, these are human beings on both sides of the aisle. So, I think that plays a large role in the fact that I think people see me as a bipartisan legislator. I’m proud of that. You know, even within our party I think, not just our party, but Democrat party too, it used to be a big tent, and a lot of folks need to vote their district, and they can’t always vote a particular way. And you know, as a kid, I remember on my side of the aisle – because we were always Republican, at least, I was always a Republican. My dad switched parties in 1970 to Republican, but now he was in elective office, he got elected in 82. But you know, I always knew that we had some moderate, you know, maybe left-leaning, people in the House. But people accepted that, and they were okay with that. They were part of the team. On the Democrat side, the same thing. We have to respect other people’s views and support them in some cases. But I don’t see that as much as we used to have, and that bothers me a little bit.

Now I will tell you that you should be a team player, too, and you know sometimes you may have to make a tough vote for the team. But in the big picture, if it’s not going to hurt your district – in the big picture, if you look at the long run, the longer run is that it’ll be beneficial for the country, in my opinion. So, I’ve always been a team player. But if I have to stand up – for example, I voted for a motion to recommit years ago, and it had to do with my district. And I was on the whip team. It had to do with the, not the health insurance, but the homeowners insurance issue. And we needed a bill, and I voted for NFIP, the National Flood Insurance Program, and you know there was a particular bill that the Democrats put forward, and I agreed to it, and I knew that it would be beneficial to my district, and I knew what the consequences would be. I would be thrown off the whip team for voting for – back then it meant something if you voted against a procedural vote. And I voted, and quietly, it bothered me that I was, you know, that I didn’t vote with my party, very much so. But I had to stand by my constituents, and I didn’t ask for any publicity whatsoever. As a matter of fact, I felt bad. But I knew I was doing the right thing. But I got all this press, and you know, “Bilirakis stands up and he’s thrown off the whip team, but he stood up for his constituents”. And you know, I said, that’s fine, but you know, I just thought that I need to stand up and represent my constituents. And I did. You know I have this slogan that volunteers came up with. We didn’t pay any particular PR firm for “Gus is for us”. So, I have to stand by that. And so, it worked out. It worked out okay. I voted against the governor on, and he was a good friend of my family’s and a great, great governor. But I promised my constituents, when I was in the Legislature, I wouldn’t vote for a voucher. It was the A+ Plan in Florida, and this was my first term, my first major vote, a couple months after I was sworn in, and I voted against the A+ Plan, which was a big deal for Jeb Bush. And Jeb Bush was a very good personal friend of the family’s, and a great governor, but I had to keep my word to my constituents. And I voted for vouchers after that. He talked to me a couple times, and I stood up, and you know the Tampa Bay Times wanted to make me a hero because I voted against the A+ Plan. I wouldn’t return their calls, I said, “I’m not going to embarrass Jeb, for crying out loud” because people saw that, you know he conversed with me, you know, before the vote a couple times, and you know, there’s no way.

Biden brought my family to the White House to sign the Parkinson’s bill. My brother passed away from Parkinson’s, and my dad has Parkinson’s. My uncle passed from Parkinson’s, mother-in-law passed from Parkinson’s, and it was very important to me. Anna Eshoo helped me a great deal in committee. Okay, I’m not going to divulge everything that went on to protect her behind the scenes, but she helped me. She stood by me, and because we have a great relationship. So, I’m sad to see her not being there in the committee, but she served her time. So, in any case, Biden invited us, after I passed the bill with Jennifer Wexton and another member of Congress on the Democrat side. They invited me to the White House, and they invited my family. The administration did, the Biden administration. They invited my family, my brother’s family, his two daughters, and that was amazing. I could bring him to the Oval Office, and the President signed the bill. It was just before he pulled out of the presidential race. So, I was one of the last people to see him. And you know, the press came up to me and said, “What’s his mental state?” I said, “Guys, are you kidding me? He just invited my family to the White House. Okay, to the Oval Office. What an honor. He signed a bill that was named after my brother, and Jennifer Wexton spent a lot of time with my family. You got to go to somebody else. I’m not going to not bring it up”. I just can’t. That’s the way I am. I was raised that way for better or for worse. 

Craig Volden (38:48): 

Well, these are really helpful perspectives, the nature of how bipartisanship works and the standing up when you need to stand up and so on. And we think about that whole range of people, from very conservative to very liberal in Congress and trying to get along there. One of the things that we’ve seen over time is kind of the evolution of these various ideological caucuses. You know, in both parties it feels like you’re maybe best positioned with the Republican Study Committee along those lines. And you know, could you tell us a little bit about how they go about their business and what drew you to being involved with them?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (39:28):

Well, I will be honest with you, because of my duties on Energy and Commerce, and chairing a particular subcommittee, a very powerful subcommittee, and then also, being on the China Select Committee, I was just placed on the China Select Committee, it’s hard for me to make a lot of the meetings. But the meetings that I have made, and August Pfluger is doing a great job, I think it’s very beneficial to be on the Republican Study Committee. We actually hear – they have a guest on a regular basis. Sometimes it will be a Cabinet member, but also, we have particular bills that are heard, and they ask for co-sponsorships. So, we pass the bill around, and if you agree with a particular bill, you sign the bill as a co-sponsor. You take the bill back to your staff, and you review it with your staff, and possibly co-sponsor the bill. And I am a conservative, so I think it’s very beneficial. And I’ve been on this Republican Committee, the Study Committee, since I’ve been in Congress. It’s been very beneficial. Again, the problem is, my schedule is very tight, and I don’t make as many meetings as I’d like to make.

Craig Volden (40:56): 

Sure.

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (40:57):

I go to all the Conference committee meetings at 9 a.m. on the day after our first vote, and it’s very beneficial – very beneficial. And I only speak when I have something to say. And you know, you got to be careful, because everything that you say is reported. Everything is leaked, and you know I feel bad for the Speaker, because, you know, he really wants to set things out. But again, it’s sometimes it’s not beneficial to speak out at the Conference committee, because I get, you know, members, they have to be very careful what they, what they leak to the press, because it’s not beneficial in some cases to the overall goal, and passing the legislation.

Alan Wiseman (41:51): 

No, I could definitely appreciate that. I’m curious just thinking about all the years you’ve been in Congress, you’ve now experienced legislative politics and lawmaking under both Republican and Democratic majorities in the House, I mean, sizable blocks of both, actually. And I’d be curious, and we’ve talked a little bit about your overall perspectives on bipartisanship and the importance of cultivating cross-party perspectives and coalitions. But really at just the individual level, do you feel that your approach to lawmaking changes in any meaningful way as you move in and out of the majority party?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (42:29):

I have been successful in the minority party as well as the majority party, and I mean the proof is there. So, my style has not changed at all. Now you know, I also know that to get a piece of legislation through, you have to govern, you have to compromise. I don’t think that’s a bad word. And when I say compromise in most cases, I mean with my leadership. The leadership, particularly the majority leader, is a good friend of mine, very good friend of mine, Steve Scalise. If he doesn’t want to agenda the bill on the floor, for some reason, then it’s going to die. Even if I get it out of the committee. So, you have to, I mean, you have to be realistic about this stuff. You are never going to get – well, Reagan said it, you know, “you’re never going to get 100%, if you’re with me 80% of the time, you’re my friend”. And so, I take that approach. And I’m a realist, and I think that that’s why we get so much done. And again, you’re forming these relationships, and I won’t take a bill that I don’t believe in. You know, I care about the kids, or I’ve got to get this KOSA bill through, and you know I may have to compromise a little bit to get it done. But I’ve talked to Ted Cruz about it, he has it. You know, Marsha Blackburn. But it’s in Ted Cruz’s committee. He chairs the Committee, the Commerce Committee. I talked to him at the fight the other night, I was at the UFC fight with President Trump. I have a great relationship with President Trump, by the way. But we talked KOSA. We talked about his Take It Down Act. We talked about the Ticket Act. I had an opportunity because I sat next to him during the fight, Ted Cruz, and he’s on board with a lot of these things. And I told him, “Ted, it doesn’t have to be our take-home bill, but we have to help these kids and get as much as we can. You know we can’t wait any longer”, and he agreed with me. So, we strategized, and I thought it was very productive. And I got a chance to talk to RFK. Jr. I talked to Tulsi Gabbard. Marco Rubio is my friend, I saw him. We talked a little bit. So, it was very productive for me. I talked to Elon Musk. And, you know, you don’t want to, I know this was a relaxing time, but it’s also you never stop negotiating and thinking over your constituents to get good responsible legislation across the aisle. Across the aisle, but you know, on the President’s desk. 

Craig Volden (45:42):

Yeah. So, lawmaking at MMA is an increasing thing out there. So, loved your reference back to Ronald Reagan and then to President Trump. And so, I’m thinking that maybe you could give some perspective over time on the relationship as you’ve seen it between Congress and the President and balance power across, you know, the past 4 decades. And where do you feel we’re right now in terms of the roles of Congress and the President at present?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (46:11):

Well, let me just say this. What President Trump is trying to do is really necessary. We’ve got to do something about this national debt, and try to get as close as we can to a balanced budget. I know it’s very difficult, but reviewing all these agencies and these budgets is not a bad thing, and it should be a bipartisan effort. I know Carter talked about it. Obama talked about it. Reagan, if you look at the videos of President Reagan, who was my idol, and of course my dad was too, but he tried to accomplish a lot of this, and he did accomplish a lot of this, and he didn’t have the House at all. Now he did have Southern Democrats that supported him, and I know some of those stories because Ralph Hall used to tell me those stories on the floor, where he would call the Southern Democrats into the Oval Office. But he only had the Senate for two years. So, he accomplished a lot. But we have a trifecta. I know we’re only a three-vote majority in the House, but we have a good, solid majority in the Senate. So this is our opportunity to take a look at everything. I know Social Security, Medicare, is off the table. Waste, fraud, and Medicaid – we need to take a look at that. And there are other issues. Now, you know, I don’t want to – veterans are number one to me. So, you know, we want to make sure that people get the health care they’ve earned. And that’s the case with Medicaid, too, you know, community health centers are really part of the solution. I may file an amendment in the appropriations bill to increase the funding for community health centers, because a lot of these people will be going to community health centers. So yeah, Reagan did it differently. And President Trump has a different approach, but I think the outcome will be the same, and hopefully we can get much more done, you know, again, cutting the waste and fraud in government, but retaining the services that people need that are necessary. 

Craig Volden (48:50):

Yeah, I mean it sounds like quite the challenge, right, to do this through a reconciliation project and keeping Republicans together. It seems like a lot of times when those big packages come together, it comes together through lots of compromises and lots of additions that actually add to the debt, and now you’re trying to do it in a way.

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Craig Volden (49:35):  

I’m just thinking about the nature of building out one of those big coalitions. You know, when you only have those 3 vote margins…

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (49:43):

It’s not easy.

Craig Volden (49:45): 

How do you think about kind of keeping everybody on board all the way through?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (49:51):

Well, listen, I think we should be on board. I really do. I mean, this is a tough task, but it’s necessary. And I’m glad we got the votes on my side to continue, you know, with the budget resolution. And now the hard work begins. Now we’ll have a meeting in Energy and Commerce, Republicans will. We haven’t made any decisions yet, as far as, you know, the savings in these programs. I know the majority of the savings is going to have to come from Energy and Commerce, so, I take it very seriously. Brett Guthrie has done an outstanding job in that we have the input that we deserve. And if it’s not a unanimous decision as to where the savings will come from, I don’t believe it’ll ultimately be in the bill. It’s up to Brett. Again, the Senate, you know, is going to protect Medicaid as much as possible. Again, we want people to get health care, but we want to cut the waste and also the people that aren’t eligible for it. That way, you strengthen the program. So they’re tough decisions, but they have to be made. You know, I was a young kid, but I remember what Reagan went through, too, and all we were trying to do was cut the rate of increase, you know, but the media called it “cuts, cuts, Reagan, cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts”. So I’ve been through it before, and Jeb Bush was a strong Conservative in the Florida House, and we made some unpopular decisions. But they were the right thing to do. And you know, that’s what we’re here for: not to be popular, but to do the right thing, and think about our country first. 

Alan Wiseman (51:58):

Great. Well, we want to be mindful of your time, Congressman, but because of the fact that the Center for Effective Lawmaking is located at Vanderbilt and the University of Virginia, and especially given the points you raised about the importance of higher education, we wonder if you had any further advice or insights that you want to offer to current college students who might be watching this interview?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (52:21):

Well, I think the students should consider a life in public service. It’s not easy, but it’s worth it. We have to have good people that care about the country, that care about their constituents or their future constituents, and you know it is a tremendous sacrifice. It’s a sacrifice. Think long and hard about it, but it’s a sacrifice for the families as well, but in my opinion, it’s well worth it. But do something that you love. Because if you love it, you’re going to be good at it, and don’t do it just for the financial gain. So that would be my advice. And it’s always good, if you know that you’ve got to talk to your partner, your spouse, what have you, to make sure that she or he is on board with the decision, because otherwise it makes this life a lot more difficult.

Craig Volden (53:25):

Yeah. Well, we really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you and want to thank you again for your public service. As we wrap up, we did want to offer you one last opportunity: Is there anything that we left out that’s important to understand about effective lawmaking in Congress, or the state legislatures, maybe that we didn’t ask about, or any final thoughts?

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (53:45):

Take it very seriously and do the right thing. But also know that you’re part of one team, and that is the team that will make our country even better than what it is now.

Craig Volden (54:04): 

Oh, we really appreciate that sentiment as well as your service. Thanks so much.

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (54:09):

Pleasure. Thank you.

Alan Wiseman (54:10): 

Thank you very much.

Rep. Gus Bilirakis (54:11):

My pleasure, my pleasure. Thank you.