Discussing Effective Lawmaking with Arkansas Representative Andrew Collins

Representative Andrew Collins is a native of Little Rock, Arkansas, and has served in the Arkansas State House of Representatives since 2019, where he currently represents District 73, which runs from Pinnacle to Riverside and encompasses much of North and West Little Rock.

Representative Collins earned a bachelor’s degree in history and public policy studies from Duke University. After graduating, he began his career with the AmeriCorps VISTA program, before earning his law degree from Columbia University Law School. He later returned to Little Rock, where he currently practices law and works in real estate with Cypress Properties.

During his tenure in the House, Representative Collins has served on several key committees, including the House Judiciary Committee, the House State Agencies and Governmental Affairs Committee, the House Advanced Communications and Information Technology Committee, the Joint Budget Committee, and the Arkansas Legislative Council. He also serves as vice chair of both the Charitable, Penal, and Correctional Institutions Subcommittee, and the State Agencies and Reorganizations Subcommittee.

In 2025, Representative Collins was elected Minority Leader of the Arkansas House of Representatives, and he was subsequently reelected to the position in 2026.

Since taking office, Representative Collins has successfully advanced many pieces of his own legislation and helped guide numerous proposals through the legislative process, addressing policy issues from education and healthcare to tax reform and elections.

Representative Collins, according to our data, experienced significant lawmaking success from his earliest days in the Arkansas State House. During his freshman term (2019-2020), Representative Collins was ranked as one of the top 5 most effective Democratic Lawmakers in the House. In his most recent terms, he has consistently ranked as the most effective Democratic Lawmaker in the Arkansas State House.

Alongside his work in the State House, Representative Collins is a Commissioner on the Arkansas Access to Justice Commission, a nonprofit organization dedicated to studying, improving, and ensuring equal access to civil legal services. He also serves as a member of the National Conference of State Legislatures Task Force on Artificial Intelligence, Cybersecurity, and Privacy.

For his work in Arkansas, Representative Collins has been recognized through various accolades, including the Champion for Children Award from the Arkansas Kids Counts Coalition.  

On utilizing professional background to influence your approach to lawmaking:

“The law experience I have certainly was influential for me deciding to get involved in politics, because that’s what we do in the legislature, is lawmaking. I mean, most of what we do deals with law, and so…having worked as a practicing attorney, obviously you see firsthand the ways in which the rules of practice, the rules of society are very influential in driving outcomes. So, I was attuned to that from a pretty early point in my professional career. Moving into real estate after, you know, practicing as an attorney, has given me a little bit of a different perspective, and it…pushed me toward this role, but in a way, more of meeting people, networking, building relationships, and seeing ways in which the law could make a difference, for good, and for ill, in a professional setting and in a broader setting. So, they were both pretty impactful.” [Developing a policy agenda deeply rooted in personal experience coincides with our DEFINE mnemonic, which can be found in our States New Member Guide]

On cultivating policy specialization and expertise and becoming a trusted policy leader:

“I think there’s a lot of value, though, when you are a specialist, because you may be the go-to person in the entire legislature on a huge subject area. I mean, we have fewer lawyers than I would like, and so the fact that I have a law background makes me in high demand. People ask my opinion about what a law says, my reading on it, and I will give it to them straight, because I think that is obviously important. My reputation is about the most important thing I’ve got out there, and so it puts me in demand where people appreciate my feedback, people trust my feedback, and it is a form of…it’s a credential I can use to open other doors.” [Lesson coincides with CEL research on research on issue specialization and effective lawmaking]

On integrating committee work into your legislative agenda:

 “ … because of that initial appointment to Judiciary and State Agencies, those were two areas that I felt comfortable in. Judiciary, obviously being a lawyer. And State Agencies, in Arkansas, that deals with elections, that deals with constitutional amendments, it deals with workings of State Agencies. I was comfortable there, too. It’s very law-heavy, and obviously deals with the executive branch quite a lot.

So, I would say, having been appointed to those, my interest naturally kind of dovetailed from there, especially with state agencies at exposure. Election laws, election bills became things that I felt, you know, more aware of, more focused on, just sitting in conversations and having debates all day about those issues, gave me additional exposure beyond what I brought to the legislature, and then when I had the chance to get back on that committee, I did. And so, absolutely, it has helped to drive my work forward.” [Exploring integrating committee work into your legislative agenda coincides with our DEFINE mnemonic, which can be found in our States New Member Guide]

On expanding your coalition building efforts beyond your chamber:

“On the Governor’s side, yeah, I always think that that is important, if you can have a working relationship with the Governor. Their position is such that, yes, they are a partisan figure, but oftentimes, I mean, I do think that they are. They’re the ultimate executive for the state, they have, in some ways, a little bit more of a bipartisan role….They are the leader of an executive branch that does a lot of different things that aren’t necessarily partisan in nature. I’ve had two governors that I’ve worked with, Asa Hutchinson and then Sarah Sanders. I feel like I’ve had pretty good relationships with both of them…. And, yeah, it’s… usually working with the staff, and making sure that if a bill comes up, that they may have an issue with, you brought it to their attention, I try to do that. If it’s at all controversial, just be like, this is what we’re trying to do here, if you have any feedback, I’d be happy to take it into account.” [Recognizing the importance of building coalitions beyond one’s chamber comports with our five habits of highly effective lawmaking]

On learning from other states:

“Sometimes you hear about what states that are maybe a little bit more politically aligned are doing, and that tends to be a little bit more relevant to us. Tennessee would be one. You can squint sometimes and see something in Virginia that might work, but you have to squint a little harder.

Anyway, it… there is always value, though, and sometimes there are pieces of a bill that might pass in Connecticut or something, and you think, well, you know, even though they did this in Connecticut, I think we could do this here. This could work. And there have been bills I’ve introduced that have been based on what they’ve done in other states, whether they’ve worked or not, it just always depends, but… sometimes, yeah, there’s certainly value. That is, the states are the laboratories of democracies.” [Exploring what works in other states coincides with our DEFINE mnemonic, which can be found in our States New Member Guide]

Alan Wiseman (00:00:09):

Hello, my name is Alan Wiseman, I’m a professor of political science at Vanderbilt University, and along with Craig Volden at the Frank Batten School of Leadership and Public Policy at the University of Virginia, I co-direct the Center for Effective Lawmaking. In today’s version of our Conversations with Effective Lawmakers video series, we are delighted to welcome Andrew Collins, who’s served in the Arkansas State House of Representatives since 2019, representing much of North and West Little Rock in the State House, currently in District 73. A native of Little Rock, Arkansas, Rep. Collins earned his bachelor’s degree in history and public policy studies from Duke University, and his law degree from Columbia University Law School. He works as a real estate attorney when he’s not serving in the legislature, and since January 2025, he served as the House Minority Leader in the Arkansas State House of Representatives, where he also serves on the House Judiciary Committee, the House State Agencies and Governmental Affairs Committee, the House Advanced Communications Information Technology Committee, and the Joint Budget Committee. Outside of the Arkansas State Legislature, Rep. Collins also serves as a member of the National Conference on State Legislatures Task Force on Artificial Intelligence, Cybersecurity, and Privacy. Now, one of the reasons why we’re so excited to talk with Representative Collins today is that according to our data at the Center for Effective Lawmaking, Representative Collins experienced significant lawmaking success from his earliest days in the Arkansas State House, where he was one of the top 5 most effective Democratic lawmakers in the House in his freshman term, which convened from 2019 to 2020. And he was the most effective Democratic lawmaker in the Arkansas State House for his next two terms in the chamber. Today, we’re hoping to learn from him about his perspective on the legislative process and what it takes to be such an effective lawmaker, especially when one is in the minority party. So, Rep. Collins, thank you so much for joining us for a Center for Effective Lawmaking interview. We really appreciate you taking the time.

Rep. Collins (00:02:07):

Well, thank you, I appreciate it. It’s an honor to be here.

Alan Wiseman (00:02:10):

Great, great. And as I said a little bit earlier, we’re going to be asking you a series of fairly general questions about your experiences inside and outside of the Arkansas State Legislature, and we really appreciate any examples from your own personal experiences as they come to mind to help provide some more context for some of the questions we’re asking about. So, with all that as a wind-up, what I’d like to do is take a step back before you’re actually elected to the Arkansas State House to get a sense of how your background shaped your approach to lawmaking. And more specifically, how’d your experience working as a real estate attorney influence your decision to run for office in the first place? And what were you hoping to accomplish upon being elected to the Arkansas State House?

Rep. Collins (00:02:51):

Andrew Collins: Well, sure. And again, thank you guys. I’m excited to talk with you today. You know, it’s an honor at the same time, you know, politics and government is a group project, and so it’s… so many people are involved in successes such as we’ve had. You know, to begin, I guess, the law experience I have certainly, was influential for me deciding to get involved in politics, because that’s what we do in the legislature, is lawmaking. I mean, that’s most of what we do deals with law, and so…having worked as a practicing attorney, obviously you see firsthand the ways in which the rules of practice, the rules of society are very influential in driving outcomes, and so I was attuned to that from a pretty early point in my professional career. Moving into real estate after, you know, practicing as an attorney, that has given me a little bit of a different perspective, and it…pushed me toward this role, but in a way, more of meeting people, networking, building relationships, and seeing ways in which the law could make a difference, for good and for ill, in a professional setting and in a broader setting. So, they were both pretty impactful. I would say, overall, the real reason that I decided to run was just… and it sounds pretty cliche and pretty simple, but just to help people and to try to make a difference in my community. I think kind of most of us are ultimately doing something along those lines. That’s why most people do try to get in. At least I’d like to think that’s why most people try to get in. But that is why I got in. I felt like I had enough background, energy, you know, I was young, but not too young. I had a little bit of professional experience, and I just had the desire to do it, and felt like if I got involved, and I could do a good job, why not go for it, take the plunge, and I was happy to do that.

Craig Volden (00:04:58):

Well, let me second Alan’s thanks, both for your public service and for your time today, and revisit those early days in the legislature. You know, coming in, some people have more experience, more thoughts about the legislative process than others. And some state legislatures have, say, various orientation materials or ways to get members up to speed. I wondered what you experienced along those lines in Arkansas, and then maybe now that you’re a bit of a ways in, including through, you know, positions on committees and in leadership and so on. What do you wish you knew back then that you know now?

Rep. Collins (00:05:37):

Well, sure. Well, and I will actually take this answer even back before I first got into the legislature, because a lot of the work that I did that was helpful for me when I first got in actually happened a little bit before that. So, when I first decided to run, I did want to, to the best of my ability have myself a good path to the nomination, and so I sat down and I met with so many people, I can’t even tell you how many people I’ve talked with to both get their support and also learn from them. And from that, I got a lot of good bill ideas. From that, I got a lot of relationships. You know, one of the things that I… it’s advice I didn’t get at the time, and maybe this is an answer to your other part of your question, but a lot of times, if you ask people for money, they give you advice, and you ask people for advice, they give you money. And so, that is part of what we have to do. We have to raise funds as legislators, but really the advice part was what was so beneficial about those conversations. And then, as I kind of rounded the corner into the session over the summer, into the campaign, I had more conversations with more people who were even closer to the legislative process, representing all kinds of different interests and angles. But it gave me a lot of background. Not a lot of knowledge, and not a lot of confidence, necessarily to navigate that system perfectly, but it was at least some raw material that I could work with. We did have a formal legislative orientation for new legislators, and it was pretty good, actually, I thought that was informative. The cliche is always, you’re drinking from a fire hose, though.

Craig Volden (00:07:18):

Right.

Rep. Collins (00:07:19):

So you’ve got a few days, and you’re learning about ethics, you’re learning about the process, the rules, some substantive matters. You can’t possibly take it all in. But what you can do is start to build relationships,: and, you know, I think I’ll keep coming back to that, because that really is the key, is… is… building relationships and being open to learning from others about the ways things can get done effectively or not effectively. I certainly tried to do that when I first came in. Of course, you know, it’s never totally seamless.  I…I…There’s an experience of maybe being hazed a little bit that I think new legislators do come into, and I certainly had that. I remember one time on one of my early bills, felt like it was a pretty good bill, I’d done all my homework, I’d had all the conversations with every stakeholder, talked to most of the committee, everybody seemed good, went down to present the bill. And I just got the coldest response, all these bizarre questions coming out of left field. The chair urged me to pull the bill down, It’s the first time I’ve even seen that happen. I did pull it down. And then what I learned was that, Some people in the other party didn’t want me to have that bill, and so they filed an identical bill, and…started to try to run that bill forward. And that was one of those kind of decision points where I had to decide what kind of…what am I trying to do here? Do I really care about the law being passed, or do I care about my ego being bruised, which it was? And ultimately, I talked with these guys, and I said, look, I don’t care that much if it’s my bill or not, take the bill, I’ll support you, do what I have to do, I’ll, you know… take… I’ll basically eat crow, and you know, I’ll just take it on myself, and as long as we’re gonna get it done. It was a good bill, we got it done. And I think after that, it was a little bit of a willingness that I signaled there that, you know, I… it’s not about my ego, and maybe I did have to go through that process given my background, and given what maybe people saw, to know that I was willing to check my ego for the sake of getting something done.

Craig Volden (00:09:31):

Yeah, that’s fascinating, and there’s so many parts that we’ll unpack as we ask follow-up questions. But the one thing I wanted to return to, you were saying, kind of on the campaign trail, you were hearing a number of, you know, ideas or things that could be, you know, bills that you would move forward, or so. Given probably how many of those you heard, which ones were the ones that kind of resonated with you, and which are the ones where you said, yeah, that’s probably a good idea, but that, you know, I can’t focus on everything?

Rep. Collins (00:10:01):

Yeah, well, and that’s a good, good point, because you can’t really focus on everything. I tried to get as many things as far as I could, but you’re right, you’ve got to draw the line somewhere, and sometimes you end up just weeding something out because you don’t think it’s the best idea. Sometimes you weed it out because you talk to people and you realize, oh, this has actually been tried. They tried to do this two, four years ago, and…you know, everyone hates it, so…But there was… I remember right before the session started, I went to a cancer society, had something about smoking and tobacco use in the States, and I just went to it, because I just, again, was trying to absorb as much as I could, learned that Arkansas had coverage on some, but not all, in Medicaid, on some but not all, of the smoking cessation methods that were approved by the FDA at the time. And then actually, the point was made that if we covered more, there’s a cost savings, 3 to 1 cost savings, because you have less, you know, medical care expenses down the line that are more expensive than prevention. And so that was one of the things that I decided, well, let’s just turn this into a bill and see if Arkansas Medicaid can cover all of the ones that are approved by the FDA. It’s another hard one. Again, I’m not sure I was being deliberately hazed on this one, but my Senate sponsor, who was on the other side of the aisle, she was the chair of the Public Health Committee, she sat on that bill, even though it was in her committee for weeks, and I had to go myself and run the bill in the Senate, which in Arkansas is unusual. Usually, your Senate sponsor does it for you, especially when she’s the chair and she controls the committee. Got the sense maybe she didn’t like the bill after she thought about it, maybe she didn’t want me to have a bill, whatever. We got that one through with a lot of effort. But, yeah, I mean, that’s just one example, but things you pick up along the way that you think, you know, why don’t we do this? Why don’t we have this? This would be better. This is something that is not partisan. I’m not really trying to, can’t, if I wanted to, push a partisan agenda on my own through a state that is deeply Republican, but it’s one of those things that we could be doing a little bit better, and I think there’s a chance for it, so let’s go ahead and strike.

Alan Wiseman (00:12:14):

So, this is a really nice articulation of the way in which you learned a bit about, kind of, the internal and formal politics on the floor, especially from your early days on. And I’d be curious to know, you know, you’ve now… you’re in your fourth term right now, essentially, how has your approach to lawmaking evolved over the last several years, especially as you’ve now moved into a position of leadership? Are there perspectives on lawmaking that are notably different now than, say, they were in your first term when you were on…doing all this on-the-job learning?

Rep. Collins (00:12:45):

Yeah, I think so. So, now that I have the minority leader hat, I kind of see myself as doing two parallel things. One, leading our caucus, and last session, we introduced a lot of legislation that was kind of our vision. It was our… we called it a Better Arkansas Agenda. We put it out, we had a press conference about it, a lot of bills that we thought were good ideas. At least let’s put them out there, see if any get traction in a bipartisan way, they can actually become law. A few did. And if nothing else, we’ve at least said what we stand for and put a positive agenda out, which people kept telling us this is what they want, so let’s do that, and let’s at least have that conversation. At the same time, people will come to me, constituents and others, with things that just kind of need to be solved, problems that are maybe, they seem more minor, they’re certainly not partisan, and those will become my bills because I am working on it with them or for them. And so I do both things, and you know, certainly the ones that are agenda bills that are maybe a little bit more partisan in orientation, certainly bolder and broader, we’ll try on some of those, and I was super proud that we got one of those through, which was a paid maternity leave for all teachers in the state, we’re only the second state to do that. That was one of our bills from that package. But at the same time, I’m working on smaller board things, and so…Yeah, it’s a little bit different now with that role, and there’s only so much time you’ve got, but if you’re in session in Arkansas, where every two years we meet for about 90 days, it’s gonna be a sprint either way, so I don’t mind taking on a little bit more.

Craig Volden (00:14:29):

So, I’ve heard you describe the lawmaking process as kind of a group project, right? And now we’re getting a little bit of it being a team sport as well. How do you think about that balance a little bit more? And, you know, what… if you want to throw out some numbers, like, what share of folks do think of lawmaking as a group project, that there are common problems we’re trying to solve, and let’s share… think of it, you know, within the legislature as Democrats versus Republicans, and let’s fight it out that way.

Rep. Collins (00:15:02):

That’s interesting. I think, for the most part, people are there to solve problems, and generally speaking, I would say a healthy majority across both parties in Arkansas, can’t speak to what’s going on nationally in other states, but in Arkansas, I really do think that’s still true. You know, a lot of people are in our legislature, it’s a citizen legislature, they serve maybe as a sheriff, or as a school board member, or some kind of a local position before. They didn’t get into it for the partisanship of it. They got… I mean, those are mostly nonpartisan positions that we have at the local level. They got in it to solve problems. I do think that, of course, there are a few that are in it, and maybe not purely on a partisan point-scoring basis, but maybe more for self-promotion. I mean, maybe they have bigger ambitions, maybe they like seeing their name in the paper. It definitely happens. I mean, we have some… and you know what they’re gonna… they’re gonna have… get on a soapbox, and they’re gonna be talking about something that they know will get them attention. That just is how it is. You gotta work with those people, too. And… but for the most part, people… I don’t think that there is a knee-jerk rejection of something that is a Democrat’s bill just because it’s a Democrat’s bill. You do have to probably work a little bit harder on the minority party. And so, one of the things that I… I do now that I usually did before, but I always do now, is if I possibly can, I will get a Senate sponsor from the other party on my bills, if I want it to pass, at least, which is most things that I’ve, you know, introduced. Because I do think…you at least need to communicate, I’m not trying to do this to score partisan points at your expense. I am really trying to get the bill passed. And if you have a Senate sponsor from the other party, you’re at least doing that much. You are communicating, you guys can own this as much as we can, and that’s okay.

Craig Volden (00:17:00):

Now, I’ve heard a couple of concepts, and I’m wondering if you can help me connect the dots on them. One was you were talking a little bit about fundraising during your first campaign,  and then you mentioned now some people who kind of court controversy, and maybe that gives them a little bit more attention there. Are those two connected? Do you have to say controversial things to get money nowadays, or is that not your experience?

Rep. Collins (00:17:21):

I don’t know, I don’t know if that is connected or not at our level. I mean, I definitely, as I perceive the outside, I mean, if you’re trying to raise billions of dollars and run national races, yeah, I would say that’s probably true. Here in Arkansas, you don’t need that much money to run an effective race. You probably will be okay with, you know, $80,000, $100,000, depending on the district, maybe even less. So, I mean, you usually can find that kind of base without being somebody who’s grabbing headlines all over the place. Also, I mean, I’m pretty realistic. We’re state legislators. It’s not like people care that much about things we say. You can be in a newspaper, but how many people are really reading that newspaper? We are not playing at the level where, I mean, we are…in people’s social media feeds on a regular basis, and they’re really paying attention to everything we say. And I think that’s probably a good thing, because we’re able to work together a little bit more, we’re able to be a little bit more problem-solving oriented, for the most part. Some people, though, you know, you just… they don’t get the assignment. Maybe, again, they’re auditioning for a different job, and they’ll be able to raise more money if and when they run for some other future national position.

Alan Wiseman (00:18:35):

Great, great. I want to shift gears a little bit to think about the specific issues that you’ve decided to advance and how you’ve done it. You know, in addition to us identifying you as the most effective Democratic lawmaker across several legislative sessions, you’ve also won the Champion for Children Award from the Arkansas Kids Count Coalition for your advocacy efforts on the behalf of children and family in Arkansas. You know, and given your current role as, minority… House Minority Leader, and just building on the points you raised a little bit earlier, it’s clear that you’re very well positioned to influence, you know, both the agenda of the party, as well as your own, or the scope of success within your own issue areas that you want to promote. And Craig and I, just thinking about our research and how it might apply to your legislative agenda, we’re curious to hear your perspective on how important you think it is that the alignment of your personal policy interests, the things you really care about and you’re elected to work on, your own expertise and your actual institutional positions. How much has that alignment influenced the scope of your legislative success over the last several years you’ve been in Arkansas?

Rep. Collins (00:19:40):

Yeah, I think that’s a huge factor. You have to have that alignment in order to bring your experience and your desires, and then translate that into effectiveness. And I think when you talk specifically about issues with children and families, and it’s probably true across the board. I mean, I do have children of my own, so I have a little bit of, kind of, personal experience with living life, you know, with school and childcare and all these things. They’re not just abstractions for me. I think there are people who can talk and legislate brilliantly without having kids, by the way, but it’s a first-hand experience for me that I definitely bring to bear. I think also, you know, when I… if I think about that kind of particular award, I think some of that is…is consistency with how I approach the issues. So, it’s not just about helping kids, it’s about realizing that there are things that we take from one bucket, and by doing that, we are, down the line, gonna be hurting kids and families, even if it might sound good, to… and I’ll give you an example. We have done a lot of income tax cuts for top earners in our state. Whether you like that or not, I’m not talking about the politics of it, but the fact is, when you do that, there’s less money that needs to go to these critical programs that serve families in our states. So, I think that there’s a recognition by these outside groups that these things are related. That is a recognition that I share, just maybe because I try to think of things as interrelated and connected, and they are. And so I’m able to… make sure that the conversation includes some of these things, like tax cuts, that are alternative choices to the choices that I think that we should be making if we really want to make the priority our kids and families. So, all that’s to say, yeah, alignment is a huge part of it. Trying to think in a connected way is also a big part of it.

Craig Volden (00:21:36):

Let me follow on that a little bit. You know, one can be aligned in, say, a committee assignment and stuff you have your background expertise in. At the same time you have to vote on all of these different issues, right? So, so how do you think about that balance between being kind of a generalist and a specialist? Is it a specialist when I’m thinking about advancing my own bills, and a generalist on what I vote on, or how is that balance struck?

Rep. Collins (00:22:03):

Well, and this makes me think of something, and I’ll come back to the answer, and this is part of the answer, but Lindsey Graham, who recently passed, I think he was quoted as something, and I won’t get it exactly right, but to paraphrase. He got into Congress, and he was looking for who is the they who makes all the decisions and knows what all is going on. He couldn’t find them, he went to the Senate, where’s the they? He couldn’t find the they. And he realized it’s actually us, and we don’t necessarily know that much about what we’re doing. We are the they. And I think that’s totally true, you know, in Arkansas, and probably everywhere. There’s not just some room where, behind the door the experts reside and they can help figure everything out. We are literally the people who have been tasked with, along with others in the executive branch, and other experts, we have to figure it out on the fly. And so, even if you come in as a specialist, you will quickly be pressed into action as a generalist. I think there’s a lot of value, though, when you are a specialist, because you may be the go-to person in the entire legislature on a huge subject area. I mean, we have fewer lawyers than I would like, and so the fact that I have a law background makes me in high demand. People ask my opinion about what a law says, my reading on it, and I will give it to them straight, because I think that is obviously important. My reputation is about the most important thing I’ve got out there, and so it puts me in demand where people appreciate my feedback, people trust my feedback, and it is a form of…it’s a credential I can use to open other doors. The same thing is true, we have a handful of doctors in the legislature. My gosh, I mean, health policy is a huge part of what state legislators do. We probably have two legislators, and one’s married to a doctor, and she has been, you know, has become an expert. It’s a lot of… it’s a lot of responsibility, but the other thing I’ll say, though, back to how the specialists have a way of becoming generalists, our ER doctor that we have, Lee Johnson, he’s a Republican and does a good job, he’s probably on your list, too, of most effective legislators, I would think. He is asked not only to be the local doctor in residence, but he has carried a ton of bills over his sessions. He came in with me, and now he’s the new, chair of the Budget Committee. So, you know, go figure. If somebody’s able to do the work, they’re going to be asked to do the work, whether it’s in their field of expertise or anything else.

Craig Volden (00:24:37):

Yeah, and I’m interested in you taking even a step back from there. You mentioned the, sort of, we are the they, element, and that we have to figure it out. I mean, that’s kind of the design of legislatures, but now that you’ve experienced it, you know, where does that work well, and where do you think policy made by more experts, or technocrats, or however one would describe that, would be a better system? Is there something genius about this legislative setting, or… or is it more flawed than… than brilliant?

Rep. Collins (00:25:10):

Well, that’s a good… that’s a good question. It kind of goes back to a personal philosophy, I guess, in a sense. I do think that there’s value in having citizen legislatures, and we are by no means expert. We have a wide variety of backgrounds. Some people have a lot of education, some people have very little education. And… And I do think, in a lot of ways, it works, and a lot of the…the really wild things typically get weeded out by the process. The other thing is, even though I might have a…personally, I have kind of a soft spot for expertise, and I’m not totally averse to technocrat-type ideas. They have a way of getting tossed aside, and they never probably should have the ultimate authority to, you know, set the rules that is too far away from what the people have expressed, either through their elections or through other, methods of expression, because that would be probably a worse outcome, an over-empowered technocrats. So, I guess I’m comfortable with where we are. I think the technocrats, sometimes I will talk to somebody in the administration, and they’re, you know, it’s like a little help… help me. They want to be able to provide their right answer so much, and they’re just not able to. And it’s frustrating for them, in some ways frustrating for me, but I don’t know that there’s a much better system than the imperfect one we’ve got.

Alan Wiseman (00:26:47):

Thanks for that. I’d like us to shift the discussion a little bit to think about the internal workings of the Arkansas State Legislature, especially, as you noticed, as you noted, it’s a citizen legislature, you’re not meeting that many days a year in either even or odd-numbered years, especially in comparison to more professionalized legislatures. And I’d be curious, in a citizen legislature such as Arkansas, and given your experience,  how much do you feel that your specific committee assignments have really been helpful, or really been useful in helping you decide which issues you end up focusing your attention on? Or, as you noted, given that within the citizen legislature, some people really are the in-house experts, such that their legislative policy-making might really transcend their specific committee institutional assignments.Yeah, that’s a great question. I was very fortunate in my first session that this was the one year that we ever did this, but the speaker appointed the committees, and so the speaker appointed me as a freshman to the Judiciary and State Agencies Committee my freshman year term. And those are difficult committees to get on through the normal process, which is what we did before and do now which is based on seniority. And, like, I think that’s how they do it in Washington as well. The lowest seniority gets the last pick, and the highest seniority gets the first pick, and some committees are in more demand than others. But because of that initial appointment to judiciary and state agencies, those were two areas that I felt comfortable in. Judiciary, obviously, being a lawyer, and state agencies, in Arkansas, that deals with elections, that deals with constitutional amendments, it deals with workings of, obviously, state agencies. I was comfortable there, too. It’s very law-heavy, and obviously deals with the executive branch quite a lot. So, I would say, having been appointed to those, my interest naturally kind of dovetailed from there, especially with state agencies at exposure. Election laws, election bills became things that I felt, you know, more aware of, more focused on, just sitting in conversations and having debates all day about those issues, gave me additional exposure beyond what I brought to the legislature, and then when I had the chance to get back on that committee, I did. And so, absolutely, it has helped to drive my work forward. That said, there are other committees that deal with things that I also care a lot about, education being one, healthcare being another. Those are two pretty critical committees. I haven’t exactly shied away from introducing bills in those areas. But I will say, when I have a bill, and there’s somebody else that I know could do a good job who sits on maybe the Education Committee, I might say, especially in my role now as a leader, but even before then, I might say, you should actually run this bill. This would be great for you to try to get through. You sit on this committee, you have the relationships on that committee. Sometimes a committee is less willing to… more willing to help you get a bill through if you’re on the committee to have those relationships with you, so…yeah. That’s… it’s definitely been a big, influential part of what has, helped mold my, my bill focuses, and I just think with judiciary, also, I mean, the lawyers are pretty well going to be appointed to judiciary, or find their way there at some point, that typically is how that is.

Craig Volden (00:30:11):

I appreciate that. Thanks for that context. I’m also thinking about, kind of, the scramble that must take place across those 90 days. You can’t get to solving all of the problems, you know, and you need some structure for what’s going to move. Maybe committee chairs, maybe party leaders help, influence that. Can you describe a little bit of the triage or whatever is involved in that process? And what’s your role been like as minority leader there? And then, maybe from the flip side, in the early days, how did you get some confidence that your ideas were the ones that were going to get some traction, as opposed to, others through that process?

Rep. Collins (00:30:50):

Yeah, that’s a… that’s… the 90 days is just… it is probably not the best way to do things, I will be honest. It’s such a sprint, I don’t think… many legislators could possibly read all the bills. I do try to read all the bills, and I… I can’t say I’ve read every word of every bill, but if it… certainly if it gets out to the floor, I’ll have read it. But I try to read them early on. But to commit that amount of time, especially if, you know, some people have less comfort with that kind of, you know,legal writing, it is a lot of work, and I don’t know that you can really expect someone to have another job and do that. That’s the other downside to the way we do it, which is, if you take 90 days out of someone’s life, essentially, and plop them into Little Rock and say, you will have no free time, it kind of makes it difficult for them to have another job, which really reduces your overall pool of people who can run for the state legislature. If you have a flexible job, if you’re retired, you might be able to make it work. If you’re just a regular professional who has a job or has family commitments, it’s tough to find that time to make it work, and so I do think that that’s a little bit of a…a little bit of a problem. As leader, I have… one of my goals has been to try to make the process easier for our caucus members, and so we have a whole system now with a lot of different layers and levels that we try to offload some of that bill reading work and some of the questions, and can’t offload all of it, but we can at least provide support that might not otherwise exist. In Arkansas, and this, I think, is unusual, we don’t have individual staff members that help us as legislators. We have a Constituent services shared staff, and we have a Bureau of Legislative Research shared staff, and the Bureau will draft bills. Constituent Services will help with commendations and, you know, letters and things like that. But we don’t have personal staff, at least not, paid for by the House or by the state, so…for the most part, we’re… it’s just us, you know? I get an email, and that comes to me, a bill needs to be read, it’s read by me, and you just gotta…take it on!

Alan Wiseman (00:33:08):

I mean, related to that point, you know, it seems like some legislatures across the different states are structured and governed in ways that… such they really function more smoothly than others. Whether, as you noted, it’s how many days they’re in session, how the committee works, the relationships between majority and minority parties, or the scope of majority or supermajority rules. So, you know, given the way the conversation has evolved, you’ve already organically raised a couple of points about Arkansas, that suggest it might be a little bit challenging, you know, the limited number of days that’s in session, the lack of paid staff. I guess, from your perspective, do you think there are other specific reforms, or would you in fact, advocate for these types of reforms to enhance the ways in which the Arkansas State Legislature functions?

Rep. Collins (00:33:53):

I think those would probably be along the lines of reforms that I would support. You know, there’s a downside to doing anything like that, and especially the public just does not want to see us in session for longer. I’m not sure I do either, I don’t know what we’d come out with, but…but the pros are, you have more time to do a thoughtful job. I think there would be less of a rush of bills, if it slows down, maybe, a little bit to more of a trickle over a longer session, that probably would be beneficial for everybody. And again, making it more accessible for qualified people who just have a job, or have family obligations that otherwise prevent them. Having a, you know, a high-quality legislature that represents the people of whatever district they’re from well, I think is in everybody’s interest if we can make the sale, and it probably would have to come from a constitutional amendment. I don’t think it would be able to be done by us as a legislature, because it looks self-serving, but if it were to be done, I would be supportive of that. Yeah, we definitely have room for improvement on that organizational score.

Craig Volden (00:35:03):

And then in terms of some of the more informal aspects, you were talking about how you reach out to others to move bills forward, and members of the other party, members of the other chamber, and so on,you know, generic sense of bipartisanship. I’m wondering if you have thoughts on the degree to which Democrats being in such a minority in Arkansas is related to bipartisanship in any particular way. I could imagine, and we know in some states where it’s just so close between the parties, the majority party doesn’t want to give the minority party any wins. But I also know, you know, there are some states where there’s such a supermajority that you just dismiss the minority party outright anyway. And it seems like you’ve found a way to work across the aisle there. Can you describe, kind of why, how, you know, how y’all see that. Is it viewed the same for members of the minority party and the majority party?

Rep. Collins (00:36:08):

Well, I think that that’s a fair point, and I would imagine that if we were closer to 50-50, we would have more, probably more tension and more flare-ups. At the same time, we would have more leverage. And so, I think the flip side of that argument, that because we’re in such a deep super minority, and by the way, we’re 20 out of 100, so it is a pretty deep super minority, you know, it would be very easy to just ignore us, because you really don’t need our votes on most bills. And so, again, I don’t think we’ve gotten to that point, and I think some of it is residual. I mean, we… had a lot of people who are Republicans in our legislature who used to be either Democrats themselves or were nonpartisan. The state as a whole was pretty late to flip. We were, you know, from 2010 to 2014 is really where Arkansas went from strongly Democratic to strongly Republican. And so I think there’s a little bit of that, there’s a little bit of, luck, and then there’s a little bit of effort that people still put in. I mean, we have a speaker, who… both the past speaker and the current speaker, the two that I’ve served under, and in the House, they both push for, bipartisanship, exactly, but at least fairness, and not just, trying to spike the ball at the expense of, the people, because I think the people get a worse outcome when you have just, sort of constant animosity and partisanship for the sake of partisanship over passing good legislation, and people at every level have continued to work toward that. It takes effort every day, takes both parties. We have still managed to hold it together. There are challenges, we see what happened nationally. I’ll give you an example. Certainly, we went in in 2021, right after, you know, what happened in 2020, with the presidential election and then January 6th happened, and then we had to go into the legislature in January, around January 15th of 2021, in masks, by the way, and so this was a time just very difficult. That was the most partisan I’ve ever seen it, and that was a time where I really felt like and it wasn’t… it was mostly the Republicans who felt like their guy had been wronged, and that, you know, the Democrats… some… some felt the Democrats had stolen the election, and… and they even said as much on social media and elsewhere, this is, you know, here we go, it’s time to… to just…go at these guys and not give them any more, any more space to operate. But, again, you know, you just kind of have to press through all that, and we press through with getting a bill through, I mean, it was… talk about hazing. I had a bill early on that session that, they held up for a very long time, and then they flooded it with a bunch of Republican co-sponsors, and they were like, now you can pass it. It’s like, okay, fine, whatever, I don’t care. But that, combined with relationship building that just can never stop, and it has to… I mean, to me, it has to be genuine, and it is genuine for me. I have a lot of good friends who are Republicans in our legislature,  you know, and I think many of my Democratic colleagues do too. And that kind of work it creates a base of trust, and then you might not always get them to your position on the issue, you might not even be able to get them to compromise on the policy, but if you’ve got the foundation of personal trust, you at least have a chance at that. And… And… and that’s what I’ve always tried to operate from, is have those relationships, tend to them, but take them seriously, don’t just treat them as transactions, and then, you know, you have a little bit of a better chance to be effective.

Craig Volden (00:39:52):

That 2021 experience is fascinating, you know, we study in Congress that it took months and months, or in some cases years, or in some cases, parts of those rifts haven’t even been recovered, but you kind of had to confront them and deal with them over a course of 90 days. You know, did you feel a change from the first days of January to, you know, when you were wrapping up? How did that play out?

Rep. Collins (00:40:15):

Yeah, I definitely did. For one thing, there was… I can’t understate the mask, and also our physical workspaces were separated by plexiglass, and we had way fewer lunches. We have regular lunches that people from both parties will mix and mingle at, and dinners and things like that. That was pretty much all out. And so I do think that, just on a personal level, things were really strained, and of course, then you had the partisan thing, that even if people didn’t necessarily feel that the election had been stolen, they knew a lot of people back home felt that the election had been stolen, and they didn’t necessarily… they wouldn’t take as much of a risk for you as a Democrat sometimes, because the pressure they felt back home was pretty harsh, and pretty strong. I, you know… worked on a bill, online voter registration with somebody in my first term. Second term, wanted no parts of that. And I don’t think his position on the bill had changed, but he just wouldn’t touch it. And there were things like that that you just kind of continue to run into. When the masks went off, when the plexiglass went away, we started to get to see each other a little bit more around March, yeah, I think by the end of that session, things thawed out quite a bit. And, again, I mean… one of those early bills, we just had to get one through. Like, it…there were people saying no Democratic bills at all this session. That was something we heard from many people. That was the order that had come down. That was the order that had come down. Not from the speaker, but from whatever, somebody. And once we got one through, and it had to be a pretty easy one, once we got it through, though, that was the signal that this is not going to hold, that we can still support a bill if a Democrat’s name is on it, and things are not going to change that much. We had to make it that way, but yeah, we did. We got that… cut that through, broke that down, and then I think the rest of the session was more or less normal.

Alan Wiseman (00:42:24):

Yeah, no, that’s a fascinating perspective on just the ways in which the political and personal environment evolved over that period of time. I’m curious, though, I mean, really independent of these idiosyncratic you know, weird periods in 2021. You know, broadly speaking, to be as successful as you’ve been, it has to be the case that you obviously need to get things to the House, but you also have to get through the Senate and have the governor be willing to sign it. And you’ve already talked a little bit earlier about the ways in which, for legislation that you really want to move, you’re proactively seeking out someone on the Republican side in the Senate who’s willing to carry it or help you along. I would also be curious to know, to what degree are you trying to cultivate relations with the governor’s mansion as well, or do you view your job as largely just focusing on what happens in the House and Senate, and then things just land at the governor’s desk?

Rep. Collins (00:43:17):

Yeah, I… well, the governor’s a huge part of the process as well. So I’ll say on the Senate side, when I first came in, that was the thing that was hardest for me in my first couple sessions, is how do you even get to know these senators who are on the other side of the building? You don’t sit with them in committee, you don’t… I mean, I didn’t know very many of them, there were some I still didn’t know after a couple sessions. But, over time, that part’s just become easier, because there are enough opportunities in the interim, during the session even, where you slowly get there. But it… that took a while, and I don’t know how you can really avoid that. That’s just…the nature of the bicameral system. On the governor’s side, yeah, I always think that that is important, if you can have a working relationship with the governor. Their position is such that, yes, they are a partisan figure, but oftentimes, I mean, I do think that they, are… they’re the ultimate executive for the state, they have, in some ways, a little bit more of a bipartisan role. I don’t know if I…they represent everybody in a certain way. They represent… and they are the leader of an executive branch that does a lot of different things that aren’t necessarily partisan in nature, so. I’ve had two governors that I’ve worked with, Asa Hutchinson and then Sarah Sanders. I feel like I’ve had pretty good relationships with both of them. Sarah Sanders, I knew somewhat before she came in, just because she’s from Little Rock and, you know, we overlapped a little bit. And, yeah, it’s… usually it’s working with the staff, and making sure that if a bill comes up, that they may have an issue with, you brought it to their attention, I try to do that. If it’s at all controversial, just be like, this is what we’re trying to do here, if you have any feedback, I’d be happy to take it into account. But I’ll tell you an example, so, where the relationship really was beneficial. I had that bill I mentioned, it was our Democrats’ package bill about maternity leave for teachers. It was a bill that  was… it had begun in the Learns Act, which is in Arkansas, this big education bill, the governor’s big education bill from her first term. They did a 50% reimbursement of the maternity leave, and it was optional. And what my bill was, was to say 100% and mandatory, so it was quite different. And it could be read one of two ways if you’re the governor’s staff. You could read that as, this bill is going against the Learns Act, which I did oppose overall. It did a lot of other things that I didn’t agree with, so I voted no on it, been very vocal. It could look adversarial, or it could look like it was building on something that the governor’s bill did that was good. And I was very upfront with them, and I said, that’s how I see it, and that’s how I’m going to portray it, as a next step forward on one of the things about the Learns Act that I thought was a good start that now can be improved upon. And they were up for that. And that’s to their credit, that they were willing to, to share the credit with me for that bill, and they didn’t just take it and say that we’re gonna call this, you know, this is Learns 2.0 or whatever. But it took trust, and it took me, I think, being upfront about… I’m not trying to score points on you with this one. Maybe something else, but not this one. And, and so… with that, I mean, working with the governor’s office explicitly, we got that one through, and that was not necessarily an easy one, because there are still a lot of people who were not quite sure about paid leave, even, you know, for public employees in the state, and so. But we got that done, and that’s to the governor’s credit and her staff’s credit.

Craig Volden (00:47:03):

Yeah, thanks for sharing that example. All of the relationship building, you’re articulating so clearly how necessary that is. I’m thinking about, sort of, the arc of your legislative career so far, right? So there are always challenges when you’re a new… well, challenges when you’re first campaigning, challenges when you’re a new member, another wave when you’re moving, maybe, from committee to committee. Still another moving into either a chair position or a leadership position. For which of those do you see, you know, the challenge being the hardest to learn a new perspective or a new job? And what sort of support do you get? Are you usually on your own to figure out what you need to do, or how does that play out?

Rep. Collins (00:47:50):

Well, I mean, by far the hardest to me was when I first announced to run. And actually, I would say it was the… when I knew I was going to run, but I was having those conversations, because I was waiting on the person who had the seat before me to go run for Congress. I knew he was going to run for Congress. But he wasn’t ready to announce it yet. So I was kind of furtively behind the scenes having these conversations that, when this happens, I’m gonna do this, I’d like your support. So much learning, so much newness, so much anxiety goes into all that. By the time I kind of took that on, getting into office was easier, and then getting into leadership was probably even easier than that. Because, you know, you have a little bit of time to pick up some of the skills and things that you need to be able to do the next job better. When you’re coming into a campaign, I mean, you’ve got to learn policies, you’ve got to learn how to run a race, you’ve got to learn who you can trust, you’ve got to learn who you gotta talk to, who have you accidentally made bad by not talking to them. It… just… the list is endless, and the pressure is enormous as well. So… fortunately, running hard in a campaign as I did, you pick up pretty much what you need. I knocked on lots and lots and lots of doors, I would say 12,000 doors? So, you talk to enough voters, you’re going to hear about what they care about. You will not not know what the voters care about after that experience.

Alan Wiseman (00:49:20):

I mean, related to that, in terms of thinking about what the voters or Arkansas constituents more broadly speaking, care about, it seems it’s fair to say that many of the issues that you’re navigating in Arkansas are being raised and being confronted in other states as well. You know, perhaps you’ve seen this already with your task force, with the National Conference on State Legislatures. And I’d be curious, you know, essentially, how do you learn from the earlier experiences in other states, or how do you share your knowledge about what’s working in Arkansas with perhaps other state legislatures?

Rep. Collins (00:49:53):

Yeah. Well, I will say these groups in CSL, the Council for State Governments is another, ALEC is not one I’ve done anything with, but I think on the right side of the aisle, they do a good job as well. These are good opportunities to meet people, and to hear what they’re doing in other states and how they’re confronting their challenges. I also have the… I mean, I just have known a couple other legislators that I knew from before in other states, and I get to hear about things they do, which are sometimes totally different. I mean, gosh, there’s somebody I know in Texas, I think his race was just, like, a $3 million race or something like that, which has never happened in Arkansas. And then in Vermont, I know somebody who’s… they sit and debate bills for weeks on end in committee, and it’s like, we don’t do that. We might have a 30-minute conversation about a bill, and then that thing is either getting out or getting down. Anyway, there are many differences in the way that the legislatures operate, but you’re right, a lot of the same topics do come up. At this NCSL task force that I’m part of, it started as a cybersecurity task force, and then it picked up privacy, and then AI… it has been overtaken by AI for the most part. It is an AI task force with cybersecurity and privacy as the, as the second line’s on it. But, it’s been a good opportunity to hear about what totally different states that have totally different models do. I mean, some of the things I know won’t work, for example, there’s been some California legislation around AI algorithmic models that I don’t think would fly in Arkansas. Sometimes you hear about what states that are maybe a little bit more politically aligned are doing, and that tends to be a little bit more relevant to us. Tennessee would be one. You can squint sometimes and see something in Virginia that might work, but you have to squint a little harder. Anyway, it… there is always value, though, and sometimes there are pieces of a bill that might pass in Connecticut or something, and you think, well, you know, even though they did this in Connecticut, I think we could do this here. This could work. And there have been bills I’ve introduced that have been based on what they’ve done in other states, whether they’ve worked or not, it just always depends, but… sometimes, yeah, there’s certainly value. That is, the states are the laboratories of democracies, they say, we didn’t always get it right. And then when it comes to technology and regulation, really any kind of regulation, there’s also value in matching what other states do, just because that can make it less expensive and less onerous on those being regulated, whether that’s an individual or a business or an entry or whatever. We don’t really have any interest in creating patchworks of regulations, so to the extent we can find something that works somewhere else, it’s probably gonna be a little bit… net less expensive for everybody.

Craig Volden (00:52:47):

Let me just pick up briefly on the AI discussion there. I’d be interested in hearing your thought on two fronts, one is, what are kind of the issues you’re hearing around AI in Arkansas that people are… that you as a legislator will have to wrestle with, you know, in the year ahead? And then, kind of secondly, is AI something that can help you do your legislative job? I’m thinking about all those bills you were reading, they could be summarized, a variety of things like that. Is that… is that something people are drawn towards?

Rep. Collins (00:53:18):

Yeah, well, I’ll answer the second part first. I do think that there are some new tools. We have not used it in the past, but there are some tools that I’ve seen demonstrated that really do seem like they would have a lot of value. I’m not sure I would trust anyone but myself to really be the final arbiter of how I feel about a bill, or even to summarize it. It’s just too important. I know AI really does amazing work now, but…  maybe as a first pass, but I would definitely need to lay eyes on it myself, that’s just me personally. What’s really valuable is it can pick up on words used in committees, in conversations about bills, and so if you’re trying to find something because you know roughly where it is in the committee, and you’re clicking around on the timeline of the video, this can save you a lot of time on that. So, something like that, I do think is pretty useful, and I hope that we integrate that in to the coming session. You know, obviously AI is a big topic, it’s interesting, because the conversations that are happening publicly are a little bit different from, I think, what’s going to be most impactful long-term. We’re talking a lot about data centers. This probably is the case everywhere. I know Virginia’s talked about it. You guys probably talked all the way through it and cleared the other shot. But, that is a big topic here. You know, I think that there are other things that are going to end up being a lot more, let’s say, hinge on our policy decisions. And, you know, I think, to some extent, there’s…we have limited abilities to do things in the states. Part of that is that there’s been a moratorium on certain kinds of AI bills from the federal administration. That got a lot of conversation among us legislators. Not a lot of public recognition that this is happening, but it’s going to have a big impact. The other side of it is, you know, we can try to do things, but it’s difficult to regulate something that is changing so fast. I’m not even sure if the industry wanted to regulate themselves, they’d be able to, because it’s just moving too quickly. And then you also have the national security implications, where some people say, well, we’re in a race with China, if we don’t do it, then China’s gonna beat us to it. And I think there’s a little bit of, legitimacy to that, too, so. There’s gonna be… there’s gonna be a lot of impacts. Regulating it, though, is… is very tough, and I don’t…there’s a lot that we do well as state legislatures. I don’t know that wrapping our arms around this from a regulation standpoint, we’re the best suited to do. It seems like it’s going to have to come from a national, if not international, you know, regulatory framework.

Alan Wiseman (00:56:08):

Right. Well, thanks for your perspectives on that, especially, again, how timely the issue is. We want to be mindful of your time, though. So, because of the fact that the Center for Effective Lawmaking is located at Vanderbilt University and the University of Virginia, we wonder if you’d have any particular insights or advice that you’d offer to share with college students today, especially those who might be thinking about public service.

Rep. Collins (00:56:33):

Yeah, I would say, you know, just keep plugging away, and if you have any interest in public service, you probably also have doubts about whether or not you would, be able to do it, or qualified to do it, or interested in doing it. I certainly have those doubts. But there’s no rush. You can get into it at any point, you can get into it in a variety of different ways. You don’t have to necessarily run for an office, you can serve your community in so many different ways that are impactful. Be patient, be confident, and if you’re not either one, you’ll get there, hopefully, in time. But yeah, it’s an exciting time to be, you know, interested in public service, and we certainly need good people who are there for the right reasons.

Craig Volden (00:57:20):

Well, we certainly appreciate your public service and your time with us today. As we’re wrapping up, I did want to just, you know, we’ve been asking all the questions, and we’re wondering, is there anything that we should have been asking about, or anything further you want to tell us about effective lawmaking in Arkansas?

Rep. Collins (00:57:35):

No, I think you guys did a great job really covering a lot of it. You know, every state being a little bit different, but I think you asked some of the questions that get into the differences. Yeah, obviously, I’m curious about your assessment about what is it… what is the secret sauce? What is it that makes effective lawmakers? I guess if you say that, then you don’t get… you guys don’t get to exist anymore, you have to pack up.

Craig Volden (00:58:00):

Well, we’re looking to you and others for that secret sauce, and so thanks for sharing your perspectives.

Rep. Collins (00:58:07):

All right, well, thank you, I appreciate y’all, asking these good questions, having this conversation.

Alan Wiseman (00:58:12):

Great, thank you very much.